Wednesday, April 2, 2008

Should they be allowed to get married?

This is a hot topic of discussion every now and then around the lunch table at work.

There was going to be a ruling whether California will allow gay marriages or not.
Lots of opinions were given about why they want to get married, and why the government might deny. All these were technical reasons. No one really expressed their personal opinion about the issue.

So well, I will express mine. I don't mind! Go for it, I say!

They are not freaks of nature. There have been references to homosexuals throughout history, so nothing new. Sure, they are minority, but not uncommon. Earlier it was taboo, I suppose because they were the minority and looked down upon. Even now, people are afraid to "come out of the closet" because society is not very accepting of them. Some people are so hateful towards them, that there have been incidents where a gay person was beaten to death. Someone might say, so why now? They lived in their closet so far, stay there. Well, there are women's rights, animal rights, so why should they not have rights that a "normal" couple has?

People want to marry for all kinds of reasons.

  • They have religious reasons, they want to live together, but do not want to "live in sin".
  • Their family wants them to get married (otherwise they are not "settled" enough, they say, rolling my eyes at that, stomping my foot and all)
  • They want to have a family, and want to be married for that reason.
  • They want to have the legal benefits that married couples have
  • They want that sense of security and commitment that marriage brings.
Whatever it might be, all these reasons apply to gays as well as to straights.

One person here said that they want to get married so that they can adopt kids. I pointed out that being married is not a pre-requisite to having kids, adopted or not. He said, nah, not allowed. I presented him with the case of Brangelina, who have quite an international team building up there. (And I love that they love the kids so much!). In fact Angelina was single when she adopted the first couple kids.

So then he countered with, wellll....you know, I wonder whether gay couples should be allowed to adopt/have kids or not. The kid will have so much trouble growing up. Kids in school will laugh at them, they will not be able to understand the situation, etc. My response to this was, so you think all these kids that do end up messed up have had gay parents? Straight folks can mess up a child's life just as much! So many straight folks have "accidental" children when they have no clue what to do with the child. At least in this case, the parents are fully aware of what they are doing, why they are doing it, its quite a painful process for them to get pregnant or adopt. They do it because they "really want to", not simply because their kid is "भगवान् की देन" or "उपरवाले की इच्छा"!

I agree that the kids of gay parents will have more than their fair share of ridiculing while growing up, but it is up to the parents to teach them and prepare them for such behavior। They will need to make them aware of the possible hostility they will face, but if the parents love their child, raise him to be a good, responsible person, the kid will love them regardless of their orientation.

I personally know of two such couples. One of the couples tried to have a baby (IVF, I suppose), when that didn't work out, they are going for adoption. They so desperately want a child, I hope they can adopt soon.

The way I look at it, there are two people who want to spend their lives together, set up a nice home and raise a family. They live very normal lives, do normal jobs, eat and sleep like we do, are exceptionally creative (you gotta see their Halloween Parade, man, they are AWESOME!), they do not bother us "straights" in any way, they are not denying us anything, not stopping us from doing anything. Most are very peaceful people, so why are we interfering in their lives? Who are we to judge what they can or cannot do.

And they are living together, raising kids, all of that anyway, so why not let them get married? Makes no sense to me *scratching-my-head*. क्या फ़र्क पड़ेगा? Just let them sign that piece of paper!

I don't know what the ruling of the case was. Must have been denied, else there would have been quite an uproar about it. I do hope they win at some point!

They are just people, you know, just like you and me!

37 comments:

Solitaire said...

Yes yes yes yes to everything you said. Spot on. I do not understand what is the hue and cry about all this. These people are not weirdos. And these are not choices that they made just like we have not chosen to be heterosexuals. It has been proven that homosexuality has something to do with your genetic make-up. So you and I are lucky that we did not end up being part of that minority group.

Anyone's child, sibling, cousin could be born homosexual. Indians joke around these days..."we should not think too much about your children's weddings..who knows..these days they may choose to be gay." I repeat..IT IS NOT A CHOICE!

I personally have FRIENDS who are lesbian. Can you imagine being in India and being lesbian? I only wish people would be kinder or mind their own business and live and let live.

aneri_masi said...

There's also the "joke" that all the good guys are either taken or gay. The taken ones are not made fun of, so then why make fun of the gay ones. Apparently we all do admit they are good :)

vEENs said...

well...10 on 10 for this one. this is so true!

i personally think the same, everyone has a right to be married, happy and have kids...and it is like they didn't chose to be ay right?
they are like that, nature made them like that........

GOD!

well I sure do hope.. they get what they want too.. at some point of time.

SambY said...

yes they should be able to marry... in a few years then.. it will become normal.. n then the kids wnt face opppositon in skool.. first few steps are difficult for everything... and yes gays are gud... just until they dnt pinch the butt of straight guys.... that is really irritatin

SambY said...

tht unfirm is of my cosin sandev who is posted herhe...lolz..he was very much flommuxed jab subah subah haha mai unifrom maanga hahaha

Cinderella. said...

So True !
Di, I agree to every single word you spoke here.I think the society just creates too much of an unecessary farce about them. When all they want is to live with the one they love...!
When are ppl ever gonna realise that ?
Fantastic post !!!

Cinderella. said...

ANd about their kids..yah, they wil indeed have their fair share of trouble...but when they grow up na..they will understand the whole concept so much better. Much better than the kids of staright couples, maybe.
Tims are changing thankfully.
We are moving ahead, slowly but still there is a locomotion. And thats all that matters.
Kudos !

--xh-- said...

'The way I look at it, ...or cannot do.'
exactly... why all these uproar? they should be legally allowed to live together.. I have gay, Lesbian and Bi-Sexual friends.. some of them are my close friends.. they dont go out disturbing the lifes of anybody.. what they ask is just to leave them alone... which, i think, we should do.

Mez said...

Oh why not...even they too deserve the right to live the way they want.They have a heart..tht matters, why sideline 'em then. They not harmin us anyways.

c e e d y said...

You are spot on - godd post.

Read all the responses too and you have unanimous agreement to your post - that means one very important thing - post this in a place where people dont understand this so you can help open their eyes.

Also I like your workplace lunch hours - wish mine were like this....you have so much happening cheers

aneri_masi said...

@all, thanks for your comments and am so glad everyone here agrees with me. I was kinda hoping to hear atleast a few opposing views. Maybe I should post this somewhere else like Ceedy suggests, but where? any recommendations?

SambY said...

have u seen "i now pronounce chuck n larry" ??? haha its a nice movie on these issues...

carolinagal said...

Well said Aneri!!! I am so proud to know that you think this way. We need more people like you to spread the awareness. Being gay is not a CHOICE. You are either gay or you are not. I feel so sad to see so many men and women out there who are forced to be 'in the closet', because of societal pressures and what not. I only hope that someday they can enjoy being normal in this world without being judged all the time.
Kudos to you again girl!!

Sourish Karmakar said...

if they want to live together and go physical..i don't think anyone will mind..why they need a paper ..no one actually cares for roomies..if they need a paper ..why the hue n cry...
but believe me the hue n cry is not of the sam gen but the prev gen..who wants their child to become a homosexual..once ur kid will reach adulthood u will understand the parental pain os seeing their child having weird thinkings :)
Adoption is hell bad for the kid's social life that's not good for his development..


** i give u my personal opinion.. i haste gays but leasbz are hottttttt lol **






seen ur adda ..ab condition know how of adda bhi bol do :P

Sourish Karmakar said...

wo hat n dusra i guess u got that...


waise kaise join karoo
kabhi pardyy hai :O

Beena said...

true.. and in teh near future.. hopefully things will improve and they will have their own rights..
something they are blamed for.. though not their fault
BS

Ankur said...

Well, good reasoning, but sometimes dont we talk abt something is natural or not? sometimes if not all d times!!!

Been gay or a lesbian is certainly a personal choice, but when we start talking abt social statuses, it becomes an obligation to the society too...

We are designed, in a way that only opposite sex intercourse can produce a child. Y isnt the case same for same sex?

Talkin abt adoption, y do children have to be adopted? now some cynic may answer, coz opposite sex get attracted and somehow an unwanted child is produced, and then god now wants to give same sex couples a reason to celebrate by adopting them.

But what if the problem of unwanted child solved, and then whom will they adopt???

Well, i may sound like having deep agigation against same sex marriages, but have nothin... the only problem i find is that if u want the society to accept something which is not natural, it will take time...

also when ppl compare India with US, guess they forget that our culture is very very different from theirs. There are people who think they have modern dresses, cells, cars, houses... but they also get into the illusion of thinkin abt the modern mind...

I have seen many such examples, and just one of them is... wearing a short top, thinking its mod, and then trying 100 times in an hour to cover ur body, by stretching it down... GAWD!!! if one isnt comfortable with something, she shldnt do it...

and thats the same problem with us, we are in a paradox... i ask u... u have given it a thought, but have u tried to analyse where we will stand with the same if they will be allowed to marry, after 20 years from now?

May be u have aneri... but then not many have, i cant design the situation after 20 years in my mind certainly!!!

and well, when we dont surrender against science/biology then genes is a part of it too... so it ultimately comes down to CHOICE!!!

And lastly, i believe, Whether the marriages will be allowed or not... its only a political agenda, nothin to do with the lives of those people!!!

Cheers!!!
Made me think so much... thnxxx :)

Pavi!!!! said...

@ Aneri: I Couldn't agree with u more. I think the world should stop breaking their heads over matters such as this and move onto things that actually need attention.
Why is such a hue n cry made out of sum1 choosing who they want to spend the rest of their life wit- boy/girl - its thier choice,business of the world.

Now having said all that... I honestly donno wat my 1st reaction will be if i knew my child were to be gay or lesbian. I want to handle it well be supportive.

n yeah abt every1 being in agreement..u know this is not the
1st time im seeing such reaction on blogsphere.It has happened in several of Solitaire's posts. i donno wat to say!

@Solitaire : u say this is not a choice?i know a frend who was married to a guy had a baby n then some yrs later had a divorce and later got married to another lady. so she was straight n turned lesbian. Does that mean she realized late?

@Solitaire

carolinagal said...

@Pavi
If I may contribute to answering this question...

It is possible that that lady realized later that she was gay, or that she knew her whole life, but did not have the courage to come out. Such situations are not uncommon! People fear the society, fear that they will be judged, therefore some how convince themselves to be straight. But those marriages don't last very long, and if they do, its only because someone is not being truthful. Again, being gay is NOT A CHOICE. The only choice they have is whether or not to tell the world that they are gay.

carolinagal said...

@Ankur
Being gay or straight is NOT a personal choice. The only choice in that situation is whether or not to accept being gay, and whether or not to tell others.

aneri_masi said...

@Sourish...why do you hate them???

@ankur, I did actually think about the question of "why is this considered weird, is it because they cannot reproduce?". The answer I came up with is, well, yeah, they cannot, but reproduction is not the only purpose of life. And there are straight couples as well who cannot conceive, no one hates or outs them, right?
You say "asking society to accept something that is not natural". That is exactly the point, who said its not natural? God has made quite many people like that, not just one or two cases, right? It is quite natural!

As to what it will be like 20 yrs from now? Look 20 yrs back, and love marriages were taboo in India, right? Having "affairs" was considered shameful, right? Now it is normal, and in a few years, those who don't have GF/BF will be considered weird. So its only a matter of acceptance, of getting the ball rolling.

Bottomline is, it is NOT as weird as we are trained to believe. How will I react if it was my kid? I want to say I would like to be supportive. Will I be? I don't know :)

@Pavi, like CG already pointed out, its not a choice. You are who you are. Lets say you really like the color blue. Can you change that? is that a choice you made that you like blue and not red? Nope. Some things are just wired that way!

@cg, Thanks for your replies :)

c e e d y said...

Just between all this serious talk - there is an all together another meaning of "gay" and to be in that state - IT IS OUR CHOICE

carolinagal said...

hey Aneri_masi
If you are free, come on Solitaire's 'STOP' blog. We are chatting :)

Keshi said...

Good post hun..loved all the points u made here.

I say YES...let ppl get married to whoever they want, wuteva sex etc. After all, its an act of LOVE...not an act of HATRED. And thats all that matters.



**Their family wants them to get married (otherwise they are not "settled" enough, they say, rolling my eyes at that, stomping my foot and all)


LOL Aneri! I so can relate to this one. This reminded me of my aunts and uncles worrying abt me being single and asking me when Im gonna 'settle down'....do I look like Im running ard in a frenzy rite now? haha!



Keshi.

Solitaire said...

@ Pavi, I think your question has been answered already but yes, I say that once again, it is NOT A CHOICE. If you wish to have an affair with a a woman right now, would you be able to or will you cringe at the thought? Likewise, they too cringe at the thought of having heterosexual relationships. Let us not forget that there are several bisexual people out there too. My professor is out as a bi and told us that she was married to a lady who died and is currently dating a man.

aneri_masi said...

@sol, hmmm...now bi folks DO have a choice, they like both, and have to choose! And it must be very difficult to make such a choice!

You say your prof was married a woman and she herself is a woman? Is gay marriage allowed in Ohio then?

Solitaire said...

@ Aneri, I am not sure if she was married or not but they lived together for several years and had a daughter together.

elusive said...

u r bang on. they sure deserve all the things tat we supposedly "normal" beings enjoy.

Friendly nextdoor guy said...

marriage?
oh, the system is going on a standby, please wait until it reboots!!

Anjuli said...

I too believe that they should be allowed to get married...

They are also human beings and should have all the rights that a human being has...

I was watchign a show on TV Wendell Rodricks had come in that, by the way he is a gay and is living with his partner Jerome and he told on the show that whenever ppl come to their place, they always compliment them for they always have their home nicely decorated with stuff and is candle lit and what not....In fact they are happier and at peace much more than the straight couples...

Ankur said...

@aneri_masi

**Bottomline is, it is NOT as weird as we are trained to believe

I know this is wat we r trained to do... but guess even accepting everyting on point blank wont be good either. So we can take our own time. :)

@Carolinagal

**Being gay or straight is NOT a personal choice. The only choice in that situation is whether or not to accept being gay, and whether or not to tell others.

oh... but isnt acceptance the second part and y do u think its not choice??? is it enforced??

Pavi!!!! said...

@CarolinaGal & Solitaire: Thnkx for ur response. yeah..mabbe she was Bi or mabbe she realized too late or she din't have the guts to come out in the open? But these 2 ladies have been married for close to 10 yrs now..n i love 'em!
one of 'em has a daughter who is 16 yrs old n has had both boy-friends n girl-friends. She is confused n is figuring out her gender preference. This isn't hereditary in anyway rite?

carolinagal said...

@Ankur
Let me ask you this..Is it your CHOICE to be a man and not a woman?

If you know the answer to this question, I hope you will understand by what I meant when I said that "Being gay is not a choice".

Solitaire said...

@ Pavi, I do not think that being lesbian or gay is hereditary but research has shown that the hypothalamus in gay men is similar to that found in straight women and several other differences between gay men and straight men. They are still not quite sure if this is cause and effect or mere correlation. As far as I know, all the homosexual people that i know are the only ones in their family to have that orientation.

Ankur said...

@carolinagal

now u moving into science and i m not very good at it... but lemme try it out with genral concepts...

so u think its a game of genetics, coz u have read the "Gay Gene" theory...

lemme quote from the same...

"Since sexual orientation is such a complex trait, we're never going to find any one gene that determines whether someone is gay or not," says Mustanski. "It's going to be a combination of various genes acting together as well as possibly interacting with environmental influences."
Source

The thoery still not proved, and i dont want to get into a debate like did Armstrong go to moon or not... but if science is so perfect then u give me a finite value of Pie(the mathamtical pie)

I guess science always find a way out, all the theorems are proven but with another set of experimental values, but u never know whether such values hold true for every experiment or not... wats the degree of confidence i may ask in scientific terms, so there will remain a chance to be proven wrong...

Now when i say its a choice, i say it on an argument based on the fact that there are environmental factors which are responsible for this... and when there are, it comes to choice. :)

I guess, being a man or woman infact can be change, and can be decided... even it is a choice nowdays and i m not talkin abt abortions here but yes, u can choose XX or XY chromosomes... :)

Cheers!!!

Sourish said...

it is not at all natural..wat dey do is completely un natural..the valves of the anus is directed to open outside ..not for inserting in..it mus pain a lot..
and if u say it is their life to decide
den i think u dont mind about s&m too

Anvita said...

Excellent post Aneri. Like most of em, I too agree that we should accept the gay society and they have all the rights to live the way they want too, after all they are humans.

But it is sad to see that people today still think that these guys are gay by choice.... tsk tsk

BTW, thanks for dopping by at mine, see u again.